[Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

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[Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

Mike Spencer

I have this rather fuzzy recollection of attending a couple of
meetings circa 1990 to establish a Halifax Uniforum group.  The two
instigators were a George White and a Bill Silvert, both, to my
recollection, connected to BIO.  IIRC, one was a bearded guy, perhaps
slightly older, the other clean shaven and perhaps slighly younger.

Was that you, George?  And if so, were you the bearded guy or the
clean-shaven one?

Just curious about a recollection.  AFAIK, not much came of the
Uniforum effort but my frequent visits to Halifax and time hanging out
around Dal ended in '93 so I lost track.  Then Linux came along.


--
Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada       .~.
                                                           /V\
[hidden email]                                     /( )\
http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/                        ^^-^^
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Re: [Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

George N. White III
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 at 22:10, Mike Spencer <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have this rather fuzzy recollection of attending a couple of
meetings circa 1990 to establish a Halifax Uniforum group.  The two
instigators were a George White and a Bill Silvert, both, to my
recollection, connected to BIO.  IIRC, one was a bearded guy, perhaps
slightly older, the other clean shaven and perhaps slighly younger.

Was that you, George?  And if so, were you the bearded guy or the
clean-sh aven one?

You are the second person from my past to ask if I am the George
White they knew decades ago.

I've had a beard since 1969.   Bill Silvert was older and retired from
BIO years ago.  I think he moved to Portugal.  I retired a couple of
years ago and moved to Berwick where my wife and I are building
a retirement home.   

I think it will be useful to provide a short overview of the history, and
also to emphasize the importance of user forums (including mailing
lists like this one).

I'm still active in support forums for a couple space agency remote
sensing applications with a cross platform Java GUI and a batch
processing system that requires a POSIX platform (e.g., linux or
MacOS).    Over the years I have helped a succession of postdocs
and workshop participants learn to work in POSIX environments
(SGI IRIX64, NextStep, MacOS, and linux).   This has taught me
the importance of user forums in supporting new users through
initial configuration problems, as well as more experienced
users who get into difficulties.   Starting in the late 1990's, BIO ran
workshops for ocean remote sensing, many at other institutions.  In
the early days we rented a couple SGI workstations and configured
them before the workshop began, but  learned that attendees ran
into difficulties getting the system to run at their workplace.    Around
2010 it became feasible to do the installs in the workshops using
linux VM's on Windows laptops, but NASA and ESA both provide
active support forums.


Just curious about a recollection.  AFAIK, not much came of the
Uniforum effort but my frequent visits to Halifax and time hanging out
around Dal ended in '93 so I lost track.  Then Linux came along.

1993 was just before the internet came to wide availability via CCN.

A Uniforum Atlantic (UA) Chapter was created to take advantage of 
Government economic development opportunities to promote
the use of POSIX systems.  At BIO, scientists trying to obtain
POSIX systems realized that IT groups were dominated by
people Microsoft and mainframe experience.  UA was able to
arrange a space where individuals could have access to POSIX
systems provided by vendors.   I think we had workstations from
IBM, HP, and Sun.   This was in the early1990's, around the time
i386 PC's appeared.   The Uniforum parent organization was
very much business oriented, and businesses were moving
tasks from time-sharing to OS/2 and MS-DOS PC's.  

A few years later the parent Uniforum organization failed.   When
we learned it was failing we stopped sending dues money to them,
and by a vote of the membership gave the residual funds to the
Chebucto Community Network in 1994.   Uniforum Atlantic did provide
hands-on access to POSIX for a few members, and other of members
were heavily involved with CCN.   Shortly after that, Uniforum Atlantic
was dissolved.  
 
--
George N. White III


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Re: [Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

Vlado Keselj-2
Hi,

Thank you for sharing this story.  Very interesting!
I am glad to hear about other people seeing value in email-list forums.
Another interesting take-away is the use of name "POSIX platform" for the
different environments that I usually call Unix-style environment.
Maybe POSIX is the way to go.

Happy New Year to everyone on the list!

Regards,
Vlado

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020, George N. White III wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 at 22:10, Mike Spencer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>       I have this rather fuzzy recollection of attending a couple of
>       meetings circa 1990 to establish a Halifax Uniforum group.  The two
>       instigators were a George White and a Bill Silvert, both, to my
>       recollection, connected to BIO.  IIRC, one was a bearded guy, perhaps
>       slightly older, the other clean shaven and perhaps slighly younger.
>
>       Was that you, George?  And if so, were you the bearded guy or the
>       clean-sh aven one?
>
>
> You are the second person from my past to ask if I am the George
> White they knew decades ago.
>
> I've had a beard since 1969.   Bill Silvert was older and retired from
> BIO years ago.  I think he moved to Portugal.  I retired a couple of
> years ago and moved to Berwick where my wife and I are building
> a retirement home.   
>
> I think it will be useful to provide a short overview of the history, and
> also to emphasize the importance of user forums (including mailing
> lists like this one).
>
> I'm still active in support forums for a couple space agency remote
> sensing applications with a cross platform Java GUI and a batch
> processing system that requires a POSIX platform (e.g., linux or
> MacOS).    Over the years I have helped a succession of postdocs
> and workshop participants learn to work in POSIX environments
> (SGI IRIX64, NextStep, MacOS, and linux).   This has taught me
> the importance of user forums in supporting new users through
> initial configuration problems, as well as more experienced
> users who get into difficulties.   Starting in the late 1990's, BIO ran
> workshops for ocean remote sensing, many at other institutions.  In
> the early days we rented a couple SGI workstations and configured
> them before the workshop began, but  learned that attendees ran
> into difficulties getting the system to run at their workplace.    Around
> 2010 it became feasible to do the installs in the workshops using
> linux VM's on Windows laptops, but NASA and ESA both provide
> active support forums.
>
>
>       Just curious about a recollection.  AFAIK, not much came of the
>       Uniforum effort but my frequent visits to Halifax and time hanging out
>       around Dal ended in '93 so I lost track.  Then Linux came along.
>
>
> 1993 was just before the internet came to wide availability via CCN.
>
> A Uniforum Atlantic (UA) Chapter was created to take advantage of 
> Government economic development opportunities to promote
> the use of POSIX systems.  At BIO, scientists trying to obtain
> POSIX systems realized that IT groups were dominated by
> people Microsoft and mainframe experience.  UA was able to
> arrange a space where individuals could have access to POSIX
> systems provided by vendors.   I think we had workstations from
> IBM, HP, and Sun.   This was in the early1990's, around the time
> i386 PC's appeared.   The Uniforum parent organization was
> very much business oriented, and businesses were moving
> tasks from time-sharing to OS/2 and MS-DOS PC's.  
>
> A few years later the parent Uniforum organization failed.   When
> we learned it was failing we stopped sending dues money to them,
> and by a vote of the membership gave the residual funds to the
> Chebucto Community Network in 1994.   Uniforum Atlantic did provide
> hands-on access to POSIX for a few members, and other of members
> were heavily involved with CCN.   Shortly after that, Uniforum Atlantic
> was dissolved.  
>  
> --
> George N. White III
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

Oliver Doepner

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:41 PM Vlado Keselj <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Thank you for sharing this story.  Very interesting!
I am glad to hear about other people seeing value in email-list forums.
Another interesting take-away is the use of name "POSIX platform" for the
different environments that I usually call Unix-style environment.
Maybe POSIX is the way to go.

Happy New Year to everyone on the list!

Regards,
Vlado

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020, George N. White III wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 at 22:10, Mike Spencer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>       I have this rather fuzzy recollection of attending a couple of
>       meetings circa 1990 to establish a Halifax Uniforum group.  The two
>       instigators were a George White and a Bill Silvert, both, to my
>       recollection, connected to BIO.  IIRC, one was a bearded guy, perhaps
>       slightly older, the other clean shaven and perhaps slighly younger.
>
>       Was that you, George?  And if so, were you the bearded guy or the
>       clean-sh aven one?
>
>
> You are the second person from my past to ask if I am the George
> White they knew decades ago.
>
> I've had a beard since 1969.   Bill Silvert was older and retired from
> BIO years ago.  I think he moved to Portugal.  I retired a couple of
> years ago and moved to Berwick where my wife and I are building
> a retirement home.   
>
> I think it will be useful to provide a short overview of the history, and
> also to emphasize the importance of user forums (including mailing
> lists like this one).
>
> I'm still active in support forums for a couple space agency remote
> sensing applications with a cross platform Java GUI and a batch
> processing system that requires a POSIX platform (e.g., linux or
> MacOS).    Over the years I have helped a succession of postdocs
> and workshop participants learn to work in POSIX environments
> (SGI IRIX64, NextStep, MacOS, and linux).   This has taught me
> the importance of user forums in supporting new users through
> initial configuration problems, as well as more experienced
> users who get into difficulties.   Starting in the late 1990's, BIO ran
> workshops for ocean remote sensing, many at other institutions.  In
> the early days we rented a couple SGI workstations and configured
> them before the workshop began, but  learned that attendees ran
> into difficulties getting the system to run at their workplace.    Around
> 2010 it became feasible to do the installs in the workshops using
> linux VM's on Windows laptops, but NASA and ESA both provide
> active support forums.
>
>
>       Just curious about a recollection.  AFAIK, not much came of the
>       Uniforum effort but my frequent visits to Halifax and time hanging out
>       around Dal ended in '93 so I lost track.  Then Linux came along.
>
>
> 1993 was just before the internet came to wide availability via CCN.
>
> A Uniforum Atlantic (UA) Chapter was created to take advantage of 
> Government economic development opportunities to promote
> the use of POSIX systems.  At BIO, scientists trying to obtain
> POSIX systems realized that IT groups were dominated by
> people Microsoft and mainframe experience.  UA was able to
> arrange a space where individuals could have access to POSIX
> systems provided by vendors.   I think we had workstations from
> IBM, HP, and Sun.   This was in the early1990's, around the time
> i386 PC's appeared.   The Uniforum parent organization was
> very much business oriented, and businesses were moving
> tasks from time-sharing to OS/2 and MS-DOS PC's.  
>
> A few years later the parent Uniforum organization failed.   When
> we learned it was failing we stopped sending dues money to them,
> and by a vote of the membership gave the residual funds to the
> Chebucto Community Network in 1994.   Uniforum Atlantic did provide
> hands-on access to POSIX for a few members, and other of members
> were heavily involved with CCN.   Shortly after that, Uniforum Atlantic
> was dissolved.  
>  
> --
> George N. White III
>
>
>_______________________________________________
nSLUG mailing list
[hidden email]
http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug

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Re: [Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

Oliver Doepner


"Is there a Linux distribution certified with the Single UNIX Specification? What are the primary reasons that most distributions don't get certified?"





On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:32 PM Oliver Doepner <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:41 PM Vlado Keselj <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Thank you for sharing this story.  Very interesting!
I am glad to hear about other people seeing value in email-list forums.
Another interesting take-away is the use of name "POSIX platform" for the
different environments that I usually call Unix-style environment.
Maybe POSIX is the way to go.

Happy New Year to everyone on the list!

Regards,
Vlado

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020, George N. White III wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 at 22:10, Mike Spencer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>       I have this rather fuzzy recollection of attending a couple of
>       meetings circa 1990 to establish a Halifax Uniforum group.  The two
>       instigators were a George White and a Bill Silvert, both, to my
>       recollection, connected to BIO.  IIRC, one was a bearded guy, perhaps
>       slightly older, the other clean shaven and perhaps slighly younger.
>
>       Was that you, George?  And if so, were you the bearded guy or the
>       clean-sh aven one?
>
>
> You are the second person from my past to ask if I am the George
> White they knew decades ago.
>
> I've had a beard since 1969.   Bill Silvert was older and retired from
> BIO years ago.  I think he moved to Portugal.  I retired a couple of
> years ago and moved to Berwick where my wife and I are building
> a retirement home.   
>
> I think it will be useful to provide a short overview of the history, and
> also to emphasize the importance of user forums (including mailing
> lists like this one).
>
> I'm still active in support forums for a couple space agency remote
> sensing applications with a cross platform Java GUI and a batch
> processing system that requires a POSIX platform (e.g., linux or
> MacOS).    Over the years I have helped a succession of postdocs
> and workshop participants learn to work in POSIX environments
> (SGI IRIX64, NextStep, MacOS, and linux).   This has taught me
> the importance of user forums in supporting new users through
> initial configuration problems, as well as more experienced
> users who get into difficulties.   Starting in the late 1990's, BIO ran
> workshops for ocean remote sensing, many at other institutions.  In
> the early days we rented a couple SGI workstations and configured
> them before the workshop began, but  learned that attendees ran
> into difficulties getting the system to run at their workplace.    Around
> 2010 it became feasible to do the installs in the workshops using
> linux VM's on Windows laptops, but NASA and ESA both provide
> active support forums.
>
>
>       Just curious about a recollection.  AFAIK, not much came of the
>       Uniforum effort but my frequent visits to Halifax and time hanging out
>       around Dal ended in '93 so I lost track.  Then Linux came along.
>
>
> 1993 was just before the internet came to wide availability via CCN.
>
> A Uniforum Atlantic (UA) Chapter was created to take advantage of 
> Government economic development opportunities to promote
> the use of POSIX systems.  At BIO, scientists trying to obtain
> POSIX systems realized that IT groups were dominated by
> people Microsoft and mainframe experience.  UA was able to
> arrange a space where individuals could have access to POSIX
> systems provided by vendors.   I think we had workstations from
> IBM, HP, and Sun.   This was in the early1990's, around the time
> i386 PC's appeared.   The Uniforum parent organization was
> very much business oriented, and businesses were moving
> tasks from time-sharing to OS/2 and MS-DOS PC's.  
>
> A few years later the parent Uniforum organization failed.   When
> we learned it was failing we stopped sending dues money to them,
> and by a vote of the membership gave the residual funds to the
> Chebucto Community Network in 1994.   Uniforum Atlantic did provide
> hands-on access to POSIX for a few members, and other of members
> were heavily involved with CCN.   Shortly after that, Uniforum Atlantic
> was dissolved.  
>  
> --
> George N. White III
>
>
>_______________________________________________
nSLUG mailing list
[hidden email]
http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

Vlado Keselj-2

Great points, thanks!  I guess the only free names to use are Linux and
Unix-style, even though I am not sure that "Unix-style" is free of
trademark strings.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2020, Oliver Doepner wrote:

>
>
> "Is there a Linux distribution certified with the Single UNIX Specification? What are the primary reasons that most
> distributions don't get certified?"
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/293396/is-there-a-linux-distro-thats-unix-certified
>
>
>
> --
> Oliver Doepner
> http://odoepner.github.io/
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:32 PM Oliver Doepner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> POSIX certification costs money:
> https://www.opengroup.org/testing/testsuites/posix.html
>
> --
> Oliver Doepner
> http://odoepner.github.io/
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:41 PM Vlado Keselj <[hidden email]> wrote:
>       Hi,
>
>       Thank you for sharing this story.  Very interesting!
>       I am glad to hear about other people seeing value in email-list forums.
>       Another interesting take-away is the use of name "POSIX platform" for the
>       different environments that I usually call Unix-style environment.
>       Maybe POSIX is the way to go.
>
>       Happy New Year to everyone on the list!
>
>       Regards,
>       Vlado
>
>       On Wed, 1 Jan 2020, George N. White III wrote:
>
>       > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 at 22:10, Mike Spencer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>       >
>       >       I have this rather fuzzy recollection of attending a couple of
>       >       meetings circa 1990 to establish a Halifax Uniforum group.  The two
>       >       instigators were a George White and a Bill Silvert, both, to my
>       >       recollection, connected to BIO.  IIRC, one was a bearded guy, perhaps
>       >       slightly older, the other clean shaven and perhaps slighly younger.
>       >
>       >       Was that you, George?  And if so, were you the bearded guy or the
>       >       clean-sh aven one?
>       >
>       >
>       > You are the second person from my past to ask if I am the George
>       > White they knew decades ago.
>       >
>       > I've had a beard since 1969.   Bill Silvert was older and retired from
>       > BIO years ago.  I think he moved to Portugal.  I retired a couple of
>       > years ago and moved to Berwick where my wife and I are building
>       > a retirement home.   
>       >
>       > I think it will be useful to provide a short overview of the history, and
>       > also to emphasize the importance of user forums (including mailing
>       > lists like this one).
>       >
>       > I'm still active in support forums for a couple space agency remote
>       > sensing applications with a cross platform Java GUI and a batch
>       > processing system that requires a POSIX platform (e.g., linux or
>       > MacOS).    Over the years I have helped a succession of postdocs
>       > and workshop participants learn to work in POSIX environments
>       > (SGI IRIX64, NextStep, MacOS, and linux).   This has taught me
>       > the importance of user forums in supporting new users through
>       > initial configuration problems, as well as more experienced
>       > users who get into difficulties.   Starting in the late 1990's, BIO ran
>       > workshops for ocean remote sensing, many at other institutions.  In
>       > the early days we rented a couple SGI workstations and configured
>       > them before the workshop began, but  learned that attendees ran
>       > into difficulties getting the system to run at their workplace.    Around
>       > 2010 it became feasible to do the installs in the workshops using
>       > linux VM's on Windows laptops, but NASA and ESA both provide
>       > active support forums.
>       >
>       >
>       >       Just curious about a recollection.  AFAIK, not much came of the
>       >       Uniforum effort but my frequent visits to Halifax and time hanging out
>       >       around Dal ended in '93 so I lost track.  Then Linux came along.
>       >
>       >
>       > 1993 was just before the internet came to wide availability via CCN.
>       >
>       > A Uniforum Atlantic (UA) Chapter was created to take advantage of 
>       > Government economic development opportunities to promote
>       > the use of POSIX systems.  At BIO, scientists trying to obtain
>       > POSIX systems realized that IT groups were dominated by
>       > people Microsoft and mainframe experience.  UA was able to
>       > arrange a space where individuals could have access to POSIX
>       > systems provided by vendors.   I think we had workstations from
>       > IBM, HP, and Sun.   This was in the early1990's, around the time
>       > i386 PC's appeared.   The Uniforum parent organization was
>       > very much business oriented, and businesses were moving
>       > tasks from time-sharing to OS/2 and MS-DOS PC's.  
>       >
>       > A few years later the parent Uniforum organization failed.   When
>       > we learned it was failing we stopped sending dues money to them,
>       > and by a vote of the membership gave the residual funds to the
>       > Chebucto Community Network in 1994.   Uniforum Atlantic did provide
>       > hands-on access to POSIX for a few members, and other of members
>       > were heavily involved with CCN.   Shortly after that, Uniforum Atlantic
>       > was dissolved.  
>       >  
>       > --
>       > George N. White III
>       >
>       >
>       >_______________________________________________
>       nSLUG mailing list
>       [hidden email]
>       http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

Vlado Keselj-2

"Unix-like" is another term that may be more common.  I found this
interesting page:

About Unix
https://kb.iu.edu/d/agat


On Fri, 3 Jan 2020, Vlado Keselj wrote:

>
> Great points, thanks!  I guess the only free names to use are Linux and
> Unix-style, even though I am not sure that "Unix-style" is free of
> trademark strings.
>
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2020, Oliver Doepner wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "Is there a Linux distribution certified with the Single UNIX Specification? What are the primary reasons that most
> > distributions don't get certified?"
> > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/293396/is-there-a-linux-distro-thats-unix-certified
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Oliver Doepner
> > http://odoepner.github.io/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:32 PM Oliver Doepner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > POSIX certification costs money:
> > https://www.opengroup.org/testing/testsuites/posix.html
> >
> > --
> > Oliver Doepner
> > http://odoepner.github.io/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:41 PM Vlado Keselj <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >       Hi,
> >
> >       Thank you for sharing this story.  Very interesting!
> >       I am glad to hear about other people seeing value in email-list forums.
> >       Another interesting take-away is the use of name "POSIX platform" for the
> >       different environments that I usually call Unix-style environment.
> >       Maybe POSIX is the way to go.
> >
> >       Happy New Year to everyone on the list!
> >
> >       Regards,
> >       Vlado
> >
> >       On Wed, 1 Jan 2020, George N. White III wrote:
> >
> >       > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 at 22:10, Mike Spencer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >       >
> >       >       I have this rather fuzzy recollection of attending a couple of
> >       >       meetings circa 1990 to establish a Halifax Uniforum group.  The two
> >       >       instigators were a George White and a Bill Silvert, both, to my
> >       >       recollection, connected to BIO.  IIRC, one was a bearded guy, perhaps
> >       >       slightly older, the other clean shaven and perhaps slighly younger.
> >       >
> >       >       Was that you, George?  And if so, were you the bearded guy or the
> >       >       clean-sh aven one?
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > You are the second person from my past to ask if I am the George
> >       > White they knew decades ago.
> >       >
> >       > I've had a beard since 1969.   Bill Silvert was older and retired from
> >       > BIO years ago.  I think he moved to Portugal.  I retired a couple of
> >       > years ago and moved to Berwick where my wife and I are building
> >       > a retirement home.   
> >       >
> >       > I think it will be useful to provide a short overview of the history, and
> >       > also to emphasize the importance of user forums (including mailing
> >       > lists like this one).
> >       >
> >       > I'm still active in support forums for a couple space agency remote
> >       > sensing applications with a cross platform Java GUI and a batch
> >       > processing system that requires a POSIX platform (e.g., linux or
> >       > MacOS).    Over the years I have helped a succession of postdocs
> >       > and workshop participants learn to work in POSIX environments
> >       > (SGI IRIX64, NextStep, MacOS, and linux).   This has taught me
> >       > the importance of user forums in supporting new users through
> >       > initial configuration problems, as well as more experienced
> >       > users who get into difficulties.   Starting in the late 1990's, BIO ran
> >       > workshops for ocean remote sensing, many at other institutions.  In
> >       > the early days we rented a couple SGI workstations and configured
> >       > them before the workshop began, but  learned that attendees ran
> >       > into difficulties getting the system to run at their workplace.    Around
> >       > 2010 it became feasible to do the installs in the workshops using
> >       > linux VM's on Windows laptops, but NASA and ESA both provide
> >       > active support forums.
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >       Just curious about a recollection.  AFAIK, not much came of the
> >       >       Uniforum effort but my frequent visits to Halifax and time hanging out
> >       >       around Dal ended in '93 so I lost track.  Then Linux came along.
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > 1993 was just before the internet came to wide availability via CCN.
> >       >
> >       > A Uniforum Atlantic (UA) Chapter was created to take advantage of 
> >       > Government economic development opportunities to promote
> >       > the use of POSIX systems.  At BIO, scientists trying to obtain
> >       > POSIX systems realized that IT groups were dominated by
> >       > people Microsoft and mainframe experience.  UA was able to
> >       > arrange a space where individuals could have access to POSIX
> >       > systems provided by vendors.   I think we had workstations from
> >       > IBM, HP, and Sun.   This was in the early1990's, around the time
> >       > i386 PC's appeared.   The Uniforum parent organization was
> >       > very much business oriented, and businesses were moving
> >       > tasks from time-sharing to OS/2 and MS-DOS PC's.  
> >       >
> >       > A few years later the parent Uniforum organization failed.   When
> >       > we learned it was failing we stopped sending dues money to them,
> >       > and by a vote of the membership gave the residual funds to the
> >       > Chebucto Community Network in 1994.   Uniforum Atlantic did provide
> >       > hands-on access to POSIX for a few members, and other of members
> >       > were heavily involved with CCN.   Shortly after that, Uniforum Atlantic
> >       > was dissolved.  
> >       >  
> >       > --
> >       > George N. White III
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >_______________________________________________
> >       nSLUG mailing list
> >       [hidden email]
> >       http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Slightly OT] Ping George White: Uniforum?

George N. White III
On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 at 07:41, Vlado Keselj <[hidden email]> wrote:

"Unix-like" is another term that may be more common.  I found this
interesting page:

About Unix
https://kb.iu.edu/d/agat

This mentions SGI IRIX which is no longer being maintained (since 2013).  There was Linux Standard Base (LSB), a Linux Foundation initiative which aimed for binary compatibility across distributions and based on POSIX with various additions such as package management (RPM with restrictions that allowed automated conversion to DEB), Java (which was once in and then removed), and CUPS (which now belongs to Apple).  LSB stagnated in 2015.   Now we have a number of technologies were distros use very different approaches: organizing libraries like hdf5 that may link against different MPI libraries (OpenMPI, MPICH); wayland compositer (MIR versus mutter); systemd versus init (currently being debated by Debian people); lightweight virtualization ; and selinux, AppArmor, or MacOS approaches to mandatory access controls.

The history of POSIX-style operating systems seems to have alternated between periods of standardization efforts and periods of divergence as new technologies are implemented differently.   To some extent this may reflect a natural process of selection where users with similar requirements gravitate to a particular distro which then affects the tradeoffs a distro has to consider when new technologies are introduced.   The fact that linux is used by many new categories of users: AI, autonomous vehicles, big data, etc. just increases the fragmentation.   The problem for many users is that these new categories bring funding for developers who focus on the problems of a particular group, so we have things like systemd that are really helpful for large scale systems at a cost of increased complexity for small systems.


 



On Fri, 3 Jan 2020, Vlado Keselj wrote:

>
> Great points, thanks!  I guess the only free names to use are Linux and
> Unix-style, even though I am not sure that "Unix-style" is free of
> trademark strings.
>
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2020, Oliver Doepner wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "Is there a Linux distribution certified with the Single UNIX Specification? What are the primary reasons that most
> > distributions don't get certified?"
> > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/293396/is-there-a-linux-distro-thats-unix-certified
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Oliver Doepner
> > http://odoepner.github.io/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:32 PM Oliver Doepner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > POSIX certification costs money:
> > https://www.opengroup.org/testing/testsuites/posix.html
> >
> > --
> > Oliver Doepner
> > http://odoepner.github.io/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:41 PM Vlado Keselj <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >       Hi,
> >
> >       Thank you for sharing this story.  Very interesting!
> >       I am glad to hear about other people seeing value in email-list forums.
> >       Another interesting take-away is the use of name "POSIX platform" for the
> >       different environments that I usually call Unix-style environment.
> >       Maybe POSIX is the way to go.
> >
> >       Happy New Year to everyone on the list!
> >
> >       Regards,
> >       Vlado
> >
> >       On Wed, 1 Jan 2020, George N. White III wrote:
> >
> >       > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 at 22:10, Mike Spencer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >       >
> >       >       I have this rather fuzzy recollection of attending a couple of
> >       >       meetings circa 1990 to establish a Halifax Uniforum group.  The two
> >       >       instigators were a George White and a Bill Silvert, both, to my
> >       >       recollection, connected to BIO.  IIRC, one was a bearded guy, perhaps
> >       >       slightly older, the other clean shaven and perhaps slighly younger.
> >       >
> >       >       Was that you, George?  And if so, were you the bearded guy or the
> >       >       clean-sh aven one?
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > You are the second person from my past to ask if I am the George
> >       > White they knew decades ago.
> >       >
> >       > I've had a beard since 1969.   Bill Silvert was older and retired from
> >       > BIO years ago.  I think he moved to Portugal.  I retired a couple of
> >       > years ago and moved to Berwick where my wife and I are building
> >       > a retirement home.   
> >       >
> >       > I think it will be useful to provide a short overview of the history, and
> >       > also to emphasize the importance of user forums (including mailing
> >       > lists like this one).
> >       >
> >       > I'm still active in support forums for a couple space agency remote
> >       > sensing applications with a cross platform Java GUI and a batch
> >       > processing system that requires a POSIX platform (e.g., linux or
> >       > MacOS).    Over the years I have helped a succession of postdocs
> >       > and workshop participants learn to work in POSIX environments
> >       > (SGI IRIX64, NextStep, MacOS, and linux).   This has taught me
> >       > the importance of user forums in supporting new users through
> >       > initial configuration problems, as well as more experienced
> >       > users who get into difficulties.   Starting in the late 1990's, BIO ran
> >       > workshops for ocean remote sensing, many at other institutions.  In
> >       > the early days we rented a couple SGI workstations and configured
> >       > them before the workshop began, but  learned that attendees ran
> >       > into difficulties getting the system to run at their workplace.    Around
> >       > 2010 it became feasible to do the installs in the workshops using
> >       > linux VM's on Windows laptops, but NASA and ESA both provide
> >       > active support forums.
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >       Just curious about a recollection.  AFAIK, not much came of the
> >       >       Uniforum effort but my frequent visits to Halifax and time hanging out
> >       >       around Dal ended in '93 so I lost track.  Then Linux came along.
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > 1993 was just before the internet came to wide availability via CCN.
> >       >
> >       > A Uniforum Atlantic (UA) Chapter was created to take advantage of 
> >       > Government economic development opportunities to promote
> >       > the use of POSIX systems.  At BIO, scientists trying to obtain
> >       > POSIX systems realized that IT groups were dominated by
> >       > people Microsoft and mainframe experience.  UA was able to
> >       > arrange a space where individuals could have access to POSIX
> >       > systems provided by vendors.   I think we had workstations from
> >       > IBM, HP, and Sun.   This was in the early1990's, around the time
> >       > i386 PC's appeared.   The Uniforum parent organization was
> >       > very much business oriented, and businesses were moving
> >       > tasks from time-sharing to OS/2 and MS-DOS PC's.  
> >       >
> >       > A few years later the parent Uniforum organization failed.   When
> >       > we learned it was failing we stopped sending dues money to them,
> >       > and by a vote of the membership gave the residual funds to the
> >       > Chebucto Community Network in 1994.   Uniforum Atlantic did provide
> >       > hands-on access to POSIX for a few members, and other of members
> >       > were heavily involved with CCN.   Shortly after that, Uniforum Atlantic
> >       > was dissolved.  
> >       >  
> >       > --
> >       > George N. White III
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >_______________________________________________
> >       nSLUG mailing list
> >       [hidden email]
> >       http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
nSLUG mailing list
[hidden email]
http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug


--
George N. White III


_______________________________________________
nSLUG mailing list
[hidden email]
http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug