Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting

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Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting

Jack Warkentin-2
Hi everybody

Ever since systemd became the default init system for Debian Gnu/Linux
I have wanted to be able to install and use it without systemd. Not long
ago
someone responded to my request on the Debian AMD64 mailing list re how
to do this.
I followed his instructions successfully on two different machines.

If attendees are interested, I can go over his instructions with you at
tomorrow evening's HCC meeting.

Regards

Jack Warkentin
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Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting

Frank Geitzler
Sounds interesting, Jack.  Let's do it.

Frank

On 2019-11-26 8:21 p.m., [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi everybody
>
> Ever since systemd became the default init system for Debian Gnu/Linux
> I have wanted to be able to install and use it without systemd. Not long
> ago
> someone responded to my request on the Debian AMD64 mailing list re how
> to do this.
> I followed his instructions successfully on two different machines.
>
> If attendees are interested, I can go over his instructions with you at
> tomorrow evening's HCC meeting.
>
> Regards
>
> Jack Warkentin
> _______________________________________________
> nSLUG mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug
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Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting

Dave Flogeras


On 2019-11-26 8:21 p.m., [hidden email] wrote:
> Hi everybody
>
> Ever since systemd became the default init system for Debian Gnu/Linux
> I have wanted to be able to install and use it without systemd. Not long
> ago
> someone responded to my request on the Debian AMD64 mailing list re how
> to do this.
> I followed his instructions successfully on two different machines.
>
> If attendees are interested, I can go over his instructions with you at
> tomorrow evening's HCC meeting.


Hi Jack,

If it's not too much a bother: for us lurkers, would you mind sharing the ML post and/or any notes you have on this process?

Best regards,
Dave
 

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Installing debian without systemd (was Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting)

Jack Warkentin-2
Hi Dave

I made up a pdf file with the instructions and have attached it to this
message. Hopefully, the listserv's will include it when they distribute it.

Regards

Jack

Dave Flogeras wrote:
>
>
>     On 2019-11-26 8:21 p.m., [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
>      > Hi everybody
>      >
>      > Ever since systemd became the default init system for Debian
>      > Gnu/Linux, I have wanted to be able to install and use it without
 >      > systemd.
 >
>      > Not long ago someone responded to my request on the Debian AMD64 mailing
 >      > list re how to do this.

>      > I followed his instructions successfully on two different machines.
>      >
>      > If attendees are interested, I can go over his instructions with
>      > you at tomorrow evening's HCC meeting.
>
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> If it's not too much a bother: for us lurkers, would you mind sharing
> the ML post and/or any notes you have on this process?
>
> Best regards,
> Dave
--
Jack Warkentin, phone 902-404-0457, email [hidden email]
39 Inverness Avenue, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3P 1X6

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InstallationWithoutSystemd.pdf (59K) Download Attachment
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Re: Installing debian without systemd (was Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting)

Joel Maxwell
> message. Hopefully, the listserv's will include it when they distribute it.
>

I had to give it a nudge on the nSLUG side. Aside from the attachment, it wanted approval since the entire message exceeded 40KB.

Cheers.
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Re: Installing debian without systemd (was Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting)

Stephen Yorke-2
In reply to this post by Jack Warkentin-2
No attachment. Can you send me directly?

I normally use Kali Linux these days but Debian will be my normal pick when not doing security work.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 16:19 Jack Warkentin, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Dave

I made up a pdf file with the instructions and have attached it to this
message. Hopefully, the listserv's will include it when they distribute it.

Regards

Jack

Dave Flogeras wrote:
>
>
>     On 2019-11-26 8:21 p.m., [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
>      > Hi everybody
>      >
>      > Ever since systemd became the default init system for Debian
>      > Gnu/Linux, I have wanted to be able to install and use it without
 >      > systemd.
 >
>      > Not long ago someone responded to my request on the Debian AMD64 mailing
 >      > list re how to do this.

>      > I followed his instructions successfully on two different machines.
>      >
>      > If attendees are interested, I can go over his instructions with
>      > you at tomorrow evening's HCC meeting.
>
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> If it's not too much a bother: for us lurkers, would you mind sharing
> the ML post and/or any notes you have on this process?
>
> Best regards,
> Dave

--
Jack Warkentin, phone 902-404-0457, email [hidden email]
39 Inverness Avenue, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3P 1X6
_______________________________________________
nSLUG mailing list
[hidden email]
http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Installing debian without systemd (was Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting)

Oliver Doepner

You can view the full email thread here, and also find the attachment (pdf) there:




On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 11:38 PM Stephen Yorke <[hidden email]> wrote:
No attachment. Can you send me directly?

I normally use Kali Linux these days but Debian will be my normal pick when not doing security work.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 16:19 Jack Warkentin, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Dave

I made up a pdf file with the instructions and have attached it to this
message. Hopefully, the listserv's will include it when they distribute it.

Regards

Jack

Dave Flogeras wrote:
>
>
>     On 2019-11-26 8:21 p.m., [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
>      > Hi everybody
>      >
>      > Ever since systemd became the default init system for Debian
>      > Gnu/Linux, I have wanted to be able to install and use it without
 >      > systemd.
 >
>      > Not long ago someone responded to my request on the Debian AMD64 mailing
 >      > list re how to do this.

>      > I followed his instructions successfully on two different machines.
>      >
>      > If attendees are interested, I can go over his instructions with
>      > you at tomorrow evening's HCC meeting.
>
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> If it's not too much a bother: for us lurkers, would you mind sharing
> the ML post and/or any notes you have on this process?
>
> Best regards,
> Dave

--
Jack Warkentin, phone 902-404-0457, email [hidden email]
39 Inverness Avenue, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3P 1X6
_______________________________________________
nSLUG mailing list
[hidden email]
http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Installing debian without systemd (was Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting)

Jack Warkentin-2
In reply to this post by Dave Flogeras
Hi Dave

First attempt:

I made up a pdf file with the instructions and have attached it to this
message. Hopefully, the listserv's will include it when they distribute it.

Second attempt:

Well it seems that the listserv's don't like attachments, so I will
convert it to a text file and include it, inline, as follows.

Installing Debian Without Systemd

     1. Download the 'net install' version of Debian buster.

     2. Install as normal, EXCEPT take care during the 'software
        selection screen':

        ONLY select "SSH SERVER" and "STANDARD SYSTEM UTILITIES". Disable
        EVERYTHING ELSE.

        You can install things later with apt, but systemd must be "gone"
        beforehand!

        I can't stress this enough.. ONLY 'ssh' and 'standard utils'
        here!

     3. Once the install is complete, and the system reboots, log in as
        root.

     4. At this point you have a working command line system.

        But in order to install the additional packages you need, you
        need to configure your Internet access. I use ifupdown, which is
        included in the ‘Standard System Utilities’. After that, since
        the Debian Installer sets up your sources.list file, you can use
        apt-get to install additional packages.

        You need an init system to replace systemd.

        Execute

apt-get install sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils

        Sysvinit should now be installed.

     5. *Reboot*, wait for the system to bootup, remove systemd:

dpkg -P systemd systemd-sysv

        Verify that systemd is indeed gone:

dpkg --get-selections | grep -e systemd

        You should only see

libsystemd0:amd64                             install

        If more systemd packages show up, purge them as well, but keep
        libsystemd0

     6. Prevent any systemd packages from ever being installed:

        Create/modify file

/etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd

        using a text editor, to add

# this is the only systemd package that is required, so we up its
# priority first

Package: libsystemd0
Pin: release buster
Pin-Priority: 700

# exclude the rest
Package: systemd
Pin: release *
Pin-Priority: -1

Package: *systemd*
Pin: release *
Pin-Priority: -1

Package: systemd:i386
Pin: release *
Pin-Priority: -1

Package: systemd:amd64
Pin: release *
Pin-Priority: -1

The above will prevent systemd from ever being reinstalled.

     7. You are now systemd free.  You can try to install systemd,
        but it should complain/balk now. That preferences file tells it
        to 'never install' systemd.

        So, here are the caveats

        As the above preferences file prevents systemd installs, anything
        that absolutely requires it will complain and refuse to install.

        Note that Debian has 'recommends' and 'depends'.  A recommend
        might desire, but not require, systemd. A ‘depends’ is a hard
        requirement.

        So for recommends, the above makes life easy.  Systemd won't
        accidentally get pulled in. For packages with hard depends? It
        will balk, and you cannot install.

     8. You can install everything up to and including X without needing
        systemd, but desktop environments like KDE and Gnome require
        systemd. I do the following.

     9. Install the xorg packages that you need to support your video
        card. These do not seem to depend on systemd.

     10. Add lines at the beginning of the sources.list file for the
         Devuan archives.

         See

https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list

         It is very important to install the devuan-keyring package
         before installing anything from devuan, otherwise apt will
         complain about security issues. It can be downloaded from

http://deb.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/

         and installed using dpkg.

         Instead of ascii in their sources.list, I use beowulf,
         which corresponds to Debian’s buster.

     11. Install a suitable display manager. Devuan recommends slim,
         which I use.

     12. Install a minimal XFCE desktop environment as per the Devuan
         website.

https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/minimal-xfce-install

     13. Install additional packages as desired.

And that's it. Hope it helps,

Regards

Jack

Dave Flogeras wrote:
>
>
>     On 2019-11-26 8:21 p.m., [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
>      > Hi everybody
>      >
>      > Ever since systemd became the default init system for Debian
>      > Gnu/Linux, I have wanted to be able to install and use it without
  >      > systemd.
  >
>      > Not long ago someone responded to my request on the Debian AMD64 mailing
  >      > list re how to do this.

>      > I followed his instructions successfully on two different machines.
>      >
>      > If attendees are interested, I can go over his instructions with
>      > you at tomorrow evening's HCC meeting.
>
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> If it's not too much a bother: for us lurkers, would you mind sharing
> the ML post and/or any notes you have on this process?
>
> Best regards,
> Dave

--
Jack Warkentin, phone 902-404-0457, email [hidden email]
39 Inverness Avenue, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3P 1X6

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Re: Installing debian without systemd (was Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting)

Znoteer-2
Hi,

On Mon, Dec 02, 2019 at 05:49:05PM -0400, Jack Warkentin wrote:
> Hi Dave
>
> First attempt:
>
> I made up a pdf file with the instructions and have attached it to this
> message. Hopefully, the listserv's will include it when they distribute
> it.

FWIW, I received the attachment with your first attempt :)
>
> Second attempt:
>
> Well it seems that the listserv's don't like attachments, so I will
> convert it to a text file and include it, inline, as follows.
>
> Installing Debian Without Systemd
>
>     1. Download the 'net install' version of Debian buster.

(lurking from Montreal)
--
Znoteer
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Re: Installing debian without systemd (was Re: Proposal for tomorrow's HCC meeting)

Dave Flogeras
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 6:10 PM Znoteer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

On Mon, Dec 02, 2019 at 05:49:05PM -0400, Jack Warkentin wrote:
> Hi Dave
>
> First attempt:
>
> I made up a pdf file with the instructions and have attached it to this
> message. Hopefully, the listserv's will include it when they distribute
> it.

FWIW, I received the attachment with your first attempt :)

As did I, I just haven't checked the list in a few days.

Thanks for this Jack!  Always fun to find a new way to void my warranty :)

D

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